Horrible update [0.8.8]

Solved!
Reply

Re: Horrible update

Composer
‎2013-02-16 07:43 PM

LadyApple wrote:

It worked :D Don't know if it matters, but I chose to run it every time I restart Windows. Do you get a message about that spotify's trying to update but the file is currently in process? Would like to get rid of it ...


Is this referring  to the auto-delete batch file? Did you choose to run the auto delete batch file every time you restart Windows? I didn't do it this way, so I don't know if it would work. In my simple experiments, I found I had to delete the new Spotify files before I restarted Spotify. So I set my Windows "task" to do this every 15 minutes. It's a little annoying to see a quick flash of the task being run, but it allows me to not worry about getting the new broken version of Spotify as it's rare for me to listen to music for less than 15 minutes at a time :)

 

If it's not the auto-delete batch file, if you add a few more details to your message, perhaps myself or someone else on the thread can help out.

 

Cheers :)

 

Re: Horrible update

Edited
Composer
‎2013-02-16 08:04 PM

hammeh wrote:

Just a few comments from me, coming from a community support side of things (my eyes):

 

"For one, I don't want to be forced to use any particular version of the music client (within reason, of course). And going back to a recent previous version should be directly supported by Spotify, not something that requires all sorts of skullduggery." 

 

I think this is probably deliberate to make support easier. If everyone was on different versions then it becomes much harder to understand and help people who have issues. 

 

"Many of the new and broken features in the Spotify client are for monetizing the non-Premium users."

 

What features do you think are designed to do this?

 

"There really should be two distinctly different clients, i.e. a true premium client for the premium customers and a basic client for the free users."

 

That complicates the upgrade process. Currently free users can subscribe and all that is required is a log out and back in again to get to premium. Having to change or manually update the application adds complexity. 

 

Peter


It is more work, yes, to offer choice and higher quality products. And some aspects of support costs may be higher. Yet the market has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that the premium/standard model works and works well. Just look at Apple vs. the mediocre PC/phone makers. Look at the luxury automobile market vs. the standard automobile market. There is choice. And plenty of profit to be made by embracing the reality that different market segments have different needs.

 

How often is a Premium customer going to be switching back and forth from the Premium client to the basic client? Not very often. Many companies offer different versions of software. People know how to install/uninstall software. It isn't hard, especially with an auto-update mechanism like Spotify has.

 

If we look at Apple more closely, social features are an opt-in. This is because Apple makes its money selling products and services, not on selling people. Spotify got into bed with Facebook, a company that sells people. And Spotify doesn't seem to understand that there is another market segment (and monetization model) for people who want to buy a music service and have social be an opt-in feature, not something that is forcefully shoved down their throats.

 

A company like Spotify might ask themselves who they want to be down the road. Do they want to be the Apple of online music? Or do they want to be the Dell of online music? They seem to be hellbent to go down the Dell path -- making mediocre stuff so they can be lazy about development and save a few bucks on support. It really is the question that I hope Spotify addresses and acts on. I don't want to have a Dell music experience that is frustrating and infuriating because a bunch of bean counters are running the company. So if Spotify is not going to be the Apple of online music, then when there is an Apple of online music, I will switch to that company's offerings. Just as the millions of people like myself who gladly spend a bit more money so they can get something better than mediocre.

Re: Horrible update

Edited
Community Legend
‎2013-02-16 08:15 PM

The thing is, can you justify making two clients, one for free and one for premium when they are so similar? It would almost be a waste of developement time, since the premium features are built into the free client anyways. Spotify has always had a one client fits all model, and from where I see it, it has always worked well. I just don't see what would set them apart as being different enough to make it worthwhile. 

 

I can understand the issues with forced auto updates, especially when it updates to something which has bugs in it like the latest release, trust me it annoys me too. This release feels like a transition period to moving to an all new client, as I said before I hope that all the issues can be fixed in the next release. 

 

I don't know enough details about the whole Facebookisation of Spotify, however it is no longer a requirement to register using Facebook, just like it was before the Facebook integration was introduced, so you can still use the service without Facebook. Personally, and probably like the vast majority of Spotify users, I use the Facebook integration on a daily basis and so do all my friends. It is not fair to base how many people want/don't want that integration on posts on the community, because as you would expect people who don't have issues would never bother to post. I do appeciate the issue of people who where forced to create their accounts through Facebook and don't have the option to disconnect without making a new account. 

 

Peter

Peter
Spotify Community Mentor and Troubleshooter

Spotify Last.FM Twitter LinkedIn Meet Peter Rock Star Jam 2014


If this post was helpful, please add kudos below!

Re: Horrible update

Edited
Community Legend
‎2013-02-16 08:27 PM

Hey there!

 

I know this is horrible update without idea.

 

But I still have an old app that works. I'm happy :D

 

So...

 

Dancecore streaming everywhere with unlimited 2M/2M mobile 3G network.

Re: Horrible update

Composer
‎2013-02-16 08:29 PM

Do I believe the overall online music market can be segmented into a premium segment and a non-premium segment? Yes, I do. Obviously, to some extent, so does Spotify, as we do have a premium service and a free service. I don't know enough about the Spotify customer base to have any certainty about Spotify's ability to offer two distinctly different clients. What's important is Spotify being open to the possibility that two distinct clients may indeed serve the needs of the premium and basic customers the best.

 

Sometimes the complexity of the "all in one" client model breaks down. It is actually easier and better for business to develop separate clients for separate purposes. For example, it used to be popular to develop a single cross-platform app across Windows, Mac, and Linux. Now days, it is far less popular as people want responsive, enjoyable to use native clients that fit the platform, not "one size fits all" generic clients. Lots of engineering money went into trying to make the ultimate cross-platform frameworks. And mostly, this didn't work that well. The same issue applies to trying to make one product work nicely for both premium and basic online music markets.

 

When it comes to a music client, I want all the premium features. I don't want to see things get dropped out because of Spotify developers who are in the mindset of "why should those free users even care?" and other negative attitudes. I want working drag and drop. I want a non-retina burning consistent UI. I want "auto-follow" to be turned off via a setting I have control over. I want a polished, easy to read and understand UI. I definitely want the speed and responsiveness of a native client, not a crappy web app. Etc. Maybe Spotify can figure out that I am paying them $120/yr for a premium music experience, not the free basic experience. But so far, it looks like they can't.

 

As for support, I hope Spotify is paying you. I think you and a few other active and helpful people on the forums are the only consistent support that exists for Spotify. The rest of us have to help each other figure things out. So worrying about Spotify's support costs for supporting more than one client version... seems somewhat humorous ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Horrible update

Community Legend
‎2013-02-16 08:40 PM

" I want working drag and drop. I want a non-retina burning consistent UI. I want "auto-follow" to be turned off via a setting I have control over. I want a polished, easy to read and understand UI."

 

I think everyone, free and premium users want that. The drag-and-drop should have been a blocking bug to me, the client shouldn't have been released with that as an issue, if it was known. 

 

"I definitely want the speed and responsiveness of a native client, not a crappy web app."

 

Personally, I haven't noticed any performance differences between the old and the new clients. I think Spotify are attempting to modernise the look of the desktop client in line with the good feedback they got from the web client which is currently in beta. I do appreciate the new looks isn't to everyone's taste, if you like dark backgrounds especially. I don't know why but I actually find the new layout easier to read, but that might be because I am looking at it on a rather dim screen since it only gets used for Spotify. 

 

"Maybe Spotify can figure out that I am paying them $120/yr for a premium music experience, not the free basic experience."

 

I do still believe Spotify offers the best service for the subscription free everyone pays. We still get amazing features such as high quality streaming and offline playlsits which I use everyday. 

 

"As for support, I hope Spotify is paying you. I think you and a few other active and helpful people on the forums are the only consistent support that exists for Spotify."

 

That is very kind of you :) 

In fact the Spotify Community Super Users (Spotify staff have the Spotify logo beside their names) are not employees and are not anyway professionally connected to Spotify. Other than the Community Rewards program, we do it out of the goodness of our hearts to share the joy of music with everyone. 

 

Peter

Peter
Spotify Community Mentor and Troubleshooter

Spotify Last.FM Twitter LinkedIn Meet Peter Rock Star Jam 2014


If this post was helpful, please add kudos below!

Re: Horrible update

Composer
‎2013-02-16 09:20 PM

hammeh wrote:

" I want working drag and drop. I want a non-retina burning consistent UI. I want "auto-follow" to be turned off via a setting I have control over. I want a polished, easy to read and understand UI."

 

I think everyone, free and premium users want that. The drag-and-drop should have been a blocking bug to me, the client shouldn't have been released with that as an issue, if it was known. 

 

"I definitely want the speed and responsiveness of a native client, not a crappy web app."

 

Personally, I haven't noticed any performance differences between the old and the new clients. I think Spotify are attempting to modernise the look of the desktop client in line with the good feedback they got from the web client which is currently in beta. I do appreciate the new looks isn't to everyone's taste, if you like dark backgrounds especially. I don't know why but I actually find the new layout easier to read, but that might be because I am looking at it on a rather dim screen since it only gets used for Spotify. 

 

"Maybe Spotify can figure out that I am paying them $120/yr for a premium music experience, not the free basic experience."

 

I do still believe Spotify offers the best service for the subscription free everyone pays. We still get amazing features such as high quality streaming and offline playlsits which I use everyday. 

 

"As for support, I hope Spotify is paying you. I think you and a few other active and helpful people on the forums are the only consistent support that exists for Spotify."

 

That is very kind of you :) 

In fact the Spotify Community Super Users (Spotify staff have the Spotify logo beside their names) are not employees and are not anyway professionally connected to Spotify. Other than the Community Rewards program, we do it out of the goodness of our hearts to share the joy of music with everyone. 

 

Peter


It's difficult to get the full meaning of one's thoughts across in message forums and emails. Spotify, as it exists today, is a reasonably good service. In a larger sense, I have paid for the Premium service for a longish time and feel I am getting decent value for my money. The high quality streaming is certainly appreciated. I don't use the offline playlists at all, but probably will when I upgrade my mobile to have more storage space. Just having mobile in the first place is the #1 reason that I pay for Premium. Right behind this is the high quality streaming.

 

I do think that it is a bit of an artificial distinction to have all the various quality rates of streaming. When I think of the costs of bandwidth that Spotify needs to pay to stream more music data, it makes sense. But the costs of bandwidth have been proven to be artificially high due to market collusion (at least in the US). So I pay Spotify extra for bandwidth. So I pay my ISP more for bandwidth. It is a scam. I don't get upset with Spotify because they didn't invent this scam. But it doesn't make me happy either, having to pay for music quality that is not even CD quality, a decades old technology, because of market collusion.

 

That gripe aside, there is a nuance that I think is important to draw attention to. This nuance is that what "should be done" is something that gets murky when there is not clarity of purpose. IMO, the Spotify client is getting worse of late. It is my belief that it is getting worse because there is no clarity of purpose for it. There is no one at Spotify that says "this client is going to be a purely native app that offers uncompromised high performance and ease of use". Nor is there anyone who says "these features cannot be compromised for the premium customers". Etc.

 

I am not saying that two clients, one for premium and one for basic, is a guaranteed answer for all of Spotify's needs. I am saying it is a possibility for there to be greater clarity of purpose. While it may be acceptable to put the Spotify UI in the blender for the basic client, it might not be acceptable to do this for the premium client. With clarity of purpose, it is easier to make decisions and it is easier to make good things vs. mediocre things.

 

The web-based Artists UI is slower for me and I'm on a very speedy computer with a decent Internet connection (30Mb/sec). And I don't have anything competing for that bandwidth. Beyond slower, it is dysfunctional and difficult to read and burns my retinas at night. So I have an auto-delete to keep the old client intact.

 

In my ideal world, there would be some way for the Premium users to discuss their needs with the appropriate people at Spotify. It may be that some of these needs overlap what Spotify wants to for the basic/free users. But treating everyone the same and not giving the Premium customers a distinct voice is a mistake in my experience.

 

While I'm grateful that you are present here and helping people because you are a good person trying to do good things that I highly agree with -- sharing the joy the music -- I also hope that Spotify would pay people such as yourself. Appreciation is nice, but you are adding tremendous value to Spotify. It seems only fair that you get something for your contributions. Maybe the users can vote on this? ;-) And don't let this intention take this place of a simple "thank you". Your contributions are highly appreciated. Thank you.

Re: Horrible update

Edited
Festival VIP
‎2013-02-16 09:49 PM

Yeah, the command window popup is annoying; i hadn't considered that before.  We can hide it, though.

 

1. Create a shortcut to the .BAT file. To do so, right click on the file, click Send To, Desktop (create shortcut)

2. Right click on the shortcut and choose Properties

3. In the Run: drop down, choose Minimized

 

Then, just point your scheduled task to the shortcut, instead of the BAT file.

 

Alternately, you could create a VBS script to do the same thing, but I think this is simpler.  I'll go back and see if i can add this to my original post.

Re: Horrible update

Garage Band
‎2013-02-16 10:01 PM

I find your arguments without merit. You're not arguing from a community support standpoint, you're arguing from a developer standpoint.

 

Developing an app and a service isn't about making it as easy as possible for the developers to support, its about giving the customers what they want.

 

Spotify is now eliminating its biggest benefits and differentiators.

 

RDIO always had offline music, web client and a desktop app that simply rendered the web client. Spotify is now moving towards the same thing.

 

As I said earlier, there is no lock in, one can always move playlists to another client with ease, so what is the point in staying with Spotify if they aren't unique anymore?

 

""I do still believe Spotify offers the best service for the subscription free everyone pays. We still get amazing features such as high quality streaming and offline playlsits which I use everyday."

 

Spotify isn't the only music service with any of those features, and even the prices are all the same. The only thing that makes Spotify superior is its interface and app quality, if it removes those, it has nothing and will quickly lose users.

Highlighted

Re: Horrible update

Edited
Garage Band
‎2013-02-16 10:09 PM

I would like to thank the people that posted the links to the old version of Spotify and looked at how Spotify updates itself. I easily stopped it from updating and wanted to share my trick.

 

Go to C:/Users/<Name>/Appdata/Roaming/Spotify

 

1. Make a new empy text file

2. Name it Spotify_new.exe

3. Right click the file and make the file read only

 

1. Make a new empty text file

2. Name it Spotify_new.exe.sig

3. Right click the file and make the file read only

 

Spotify will not be able to update because it can't delete the files, because they are read only, all future upgrades will fail.

 

This method is easy to use and permanent.

SUGGESTED POSTS