[All Platforms] Option to have a true shuffle

[jonathanleyerle]

So I’ve been noticing more and more recently that Spotify’s default shuffle feature doesn’t fully shuffle your songs. It does some sort of grouping to try to get similar songs together based off of what I’m sure is dozens of factors. Every time I shuffle a playlist (the one I noticed this with the most is ~100 songs and 6 hours of mostly full albums) it will group the songs mostly or completely together by album/artist, and given the number of times I’ve re-shuffled and checked the order there’s no way it’s just a coincidence. They also generally seem to be in the same order as well. If I hit shuffle play on a playlist it’ll generally put the same artists at the beginning every time.

With larger playlists of albums I am really not a fan of this shuffling method. If I have 6 hours of music on a playlist I will hardly ever have 6 hours to actually listen through the whole thing, but when I do listen to it I would like to hear all of the music on it equally, and not just the artist or two your algorithm likes to shuffle to first.

Anyways, I’m a reasonable man, all I’m asking for is an option to have a true shuffle (take all songs in the list, put them in a random order, and once they’re all played reshuffle them and play them again). Make it premium only if you want. I don’t think you should scrap the current shuffle algorithm because it sucks. Looking at some of the suggestions on here it seems like some people lobbied hard to have it that way. Just add an option for a true shuffle for those of us that don’t care about potentially getting the same song twice in a row.

[algorithm_guy]

Multiple people seem confused WHY this is happening -- which is odd, because it seems pretty obvious to me

They have developed an algorithm which, to them, is perceived as providing maximal listening enjoyment when run against all tracks or a subset of tracks and someone is insisting on applying that same algorithm to ALL cases (including shuffled playlists regardless of who owns them)

It is indeed possible that for a random, non techy person, listening to a stranger's large playlist for the first time the recommended shuffle algorithm really does increase listening enjoyment.   The probability that a potential new user would turn off the playlist and abandon the platform based on encountering some "weird esoteric thing" is probably greater (measured in terms of potential profitability) than that a power user would leave the service because they didn't get to hear their esoteric track high enough in the shuffle order

Imagine you had two general user types that approximately account for 90% of the userbase:

Person A - Has a strong preference towards popular tracks and dislikes when consecutive songs are of radically different tone or genre (eg my mom)

Person B - Likes unusual or 'cult' songs and doesn't mind (or even notice) if consecutive tracks are matching mood (eg me)

I am actually sympathetic to Spotify's desire to tweak recommendations for someone like my mom, if I send her a playlist.   I just need a way to over-ride it for someone like myself.

I have ceased to use shuffle on my liked songs... I now play them in order of time liked and remember my place and then start again when I reach the bottom.  For me, the real fear is that songs are being 'forgotten' inside my Liked Songs playlist.  So what I would REALLY like is a sort order that plays the song which you've gone the longest without hearing or heard the minimum number of times or even 'scheduled relistens' on an interval which increases exponentially in time, similar to how graduated flashcard timesets operate.  But, you know, one thing at a time 😉

[vertigo98]

I agree with @algorithm_guy, I suspect that's what they are doing. While an algorithmic shuffle might be great on the first listen, it ruins even their curated playlists after a couple of listens. They have some amazing curated playlists but they keep playing the same songs on shuffle.  I suspect they have different "levels" of this algorithm, for example check "Mint Acoustic", it is on the most aggressive level of the algorithm. Not only is the order of the songs based on your preferences but even if you shuffle that playlist you get those same top 15 songs on the shuffle queue.

If I'm selecting "shuffle" it means I want to listen to the other songs deep within 100 songs curated playlist. If I want to listen to the order you think it's best for me, I wouldn't use shuffle at all. This has been such a turn off that I don't go back to curated playlists I discover after a few listens.

This shuffle algorithm shouldn't even touch "Liked Songs", what are they even thinking? Those are my songs that i've liked, your algorithms should stay far away from them.

They think they're smart because they have the data that proves this algorithm makes users listen for longer, i'm sorry to ruin your statistics research but THE DATA DOESN'T ALWAYS TELL YOU THE WHOLE STORY. 

All we're asking (for many years) is a simple toggle, turning off this algorithmic shuffle. It can be buried deep within settings so normal users don't find it. It wouldn't hurt you at all, and it would take 1 development day to implement it. 

[rozeboosje]

@algorithm_guy seems to be missing the point here. As I - and others - have pointed out several times already, there are two points that need to be taken into consideration here:

1) We are talking about PAYING customers ...

2) ... listening to THEIR OWN "liked songs" or "play lists"

I couldn't care less what spotify does with other people's play lists. If they want to present me with a weighted shuffle when I listen to a play list shared by Somebody_Else, that is fine by me. If they want to present the "Spotify Free" users exclusively with weighted shuffle lists because of, well, reasons, fine. Be like that. See if I care.

But when I as a paying customer create my own play list and I want to listen to it in a random order, I expect to be given all the songs in my own play list in a proper random order. No repeats. No weighting.

I've already shared the code to achieve something as simple as that. I'd be equally happy to provide an algorithm to deal with a shuffled play list while it's playing and the user is adding or removing songs from it. Even that is a piece of cake. Removing songs is trivial. Adding songs can be done by simply concatenating them to the end of the list, or even by peppering them through what remains to be played in the list at random places. None of this is rocket science.

[barra240t]

What I wanted to achieve worked perfectly for my particular usage, that being:

- not hearing the same artist over and over

- not hearing the same album

- hearing songs I have not heard in a long time

If you want Spotify to play your own music in total random and remind you of some great songs you have either forgotten about or just haven't heard in a long time my method is for you. I've been testing it all day and its works a charm for me (using desktop app)

[Beatalls]

This should also apply to artist shuffle. For example, I love the Beatles (obviously) but when I shuffle their catalogue I would like to hear everything, right now the first three songs to play are always a mix between: Here Comes The Sun, Let It Be, or Hey Jude. Which are perfectly fine songs but some variety would be refreshing at this point. It also feels a disservice to the artists to ONLY play their most popular songs, over and over...

[Jswoape2]

I've got 1990 liked songs and haven't heard even half of tbem because of the shuffle algorithm. Everytime I do press shuffle it plays the same songs every other car ride. Please take this idea and apply it to allow true shuffle 

[morciuch]

wake me up when spotify has true shuffle mode

[Tijntje1980]

Yes to this.

How can a shuffle algorithm in 2021 be so dumb to repeat songs from a list.
The Wikipedia entry for Shuffle even says it 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffle_play

Shuffle play is a mode of music playback in which songs are played in a randomized order that is decided upon for all tracks at once. It is commonly found on CD players, digital audio players and media player software. Shuffle playback prevents repeated tracks, which makes it distinct from random playback, in which the next track is chosen at random after the last track has ended.

I'm using https://writhem.net/intellimerge/ to create large, dynamically updating playlists comprised of multiple Spotify Playlists.

Now I have a great playlist with over 4000 songs I want to listen to, but I still seem to hear the same 100 or what songs.

[fraktalisman]

Thanks @Tijntje1980 for providing the links! Wikipedia should be considered an authoritative source for a feature requirement, and I will give Intellimerge a try!

[Facundooo]

Here Facundo from Argentina.

Lately been really dissapointed knowing that "shuffle play" it's being distorted by the algorithm 😤

One suggestion for this maybe could be letting people choose between this shuffle play and real shuffle play.

Why instead of doing that for people to stay on the app, which i think is disgusting, don't you update some relevant features, like visual ones, or -i don't know- something related to the app experience.
Hope some day you start making other type of changes and let the people listen to all their music without your intervention.