Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Regular

@bon_scott wrote:

 

2: This one bothers me the most (maybe i'm confguring something wrong): The Spotty plugin allows you to play via the squeezebox from your phone. This is fundamentally different. In the old system my kids could search and play music using only the Hardware interface of the squeezebox (dial button & display). Now they would need an extra phone (and guess what, the are not gonne use mine and I wil not give my 6 year old a personal cellphone) to pick the music and stream it to the box.


I have Spotty running on my own server and you can use your Squeezebox's controls to operate it the same way as the old 'app'. No phone or web-interface is needed for operation. Though setting it up through it's web interface is convenient and needed. The 'app' replaces the old 'app' if that makes any sense to you.

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Regular

Ok, then that solves my problem, I can live with that.

 

I had problems setting up the server because I have several networks running and the only available computer for installing is in another subnet. I then saw the instructions that told me to go to my pne and choose play on device(...) which could then not be found. I guess I will just get a rasberryPi and use it as server and that should solve it. But sill another 20 bucks must be spent....

 

Thanks

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Music Fan

I just don't think it's reasonable to demand that Spotify support old technology indefinitely. It's like saying that any software vendor should support their products indefinitely. Logitech could update the Spotify app on the SB. As I understand it you expect Spotify to make sure that all devices with old Spotify support should continue to work indefinitely. I simply disagree.

I agree that the notice is too short, but I have been holding my breath and expecting this ever since Logitech decided so kill the Squeezebox. It worked for another 5 years which I think is more than reasonable. Again, it was Logitechs decision to kill the product, not Spotifys.

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Music Fan

I totally agree that any SB replacement like Spotty or ChromeCast/Gramofon is a inferior solution to the SB. But bottom line is: Logitech killed the product, not Spotify.  

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

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@Frede wrote:

I just don't think it's reasonable to demand that Spotify support old technology indefinitely. It's like saying that any software vendor should support their products indefinitely. Logitech could update the Spotify app on the SB. As I understand it you expect Spotify to make sure that all devices with old Spotify support should continue to work indefinitely. I simply disagree.

I agree that the notice is too short, but I have been holding my breath and expecting this ever since Logitech decided so kill the Squeezebox. It worked for another 5 years which I think is more than reasonable. Again, it was Logitechs decision to kill the product, not Spotifys.


Nobody said anything about 'indefinitely'. But 5 years is not very long when talking about an audio device. I have a Denon AV receiver. It doesn't have Spotify on it because it's too old. Newer ones have it though. How long will Spotify support those, and other (sometimes expensive) equipment? Do consumers even think about this? This issue is also happening with 'smart' TV's. The problem nowadays is, devices run software that is more often not supported for the real life expectancy of the hardware. Imho manufacturers should be forced to support their creations far longer than they do now. That's why I really don't want a smart TV or a receiver that can do everything. You might be better of buying separate components, depending on the situation that is. Usually that integrated software is ridden with bugs and whatnot anyway.

 

Regarding Logitech... Well, they indeed killed off Squeezebox years ago, which they bought themselves and couldn't or wouldn't sell. But they did a great thing when they handed over their stuff to the community. That wouldn't have happend with many manufacurers. So they did something quite well. Plus they keep running www.mysqueezebox.com (as is) for now. So they do support their clients in a way. Something Spotify apparently does not.

 

However Spotify itself is 'just' a software service. No hardware involved at the moment. Spotify's focus should be to be able to run on as many devices as possible. Sacrificing a chunk of old clients this way isn't very smart. Especially so when not giving ample notice. And they didn't have to do anything to support these older devices. What they have now works. If they want to introduce a new API older hardware can't play with they should give ample notice and consider the repercussions it involves for many old Spotify users. They clearly didn't care and for that they can (and will) by booed. And they could have opted for a separate service so the new API can coexist next to the old. It's **bleep** software so don't tell me it isn't possible. And cost wise it wouldn't be much for sure. No, there are other motives at work we can only guess at. I bet it involves maximising profits and not satisfied customers. 

 

Btw, The classic (pre Logitech) SB's are actually a lot nicer imho. They can't do Spotify on their own, never could. You will need a server anyway (always have). Kind of funny those older devices can be made to run Spotify that way and it's actually the reason LMS is still around and popular. It runs the newer devices too, so that's the only way out. Heck, you can make your own Squeezebox with a DAC of your choice, a Raspberry Pi and a touchscreen (optional). Thanks to the fact Logitech did give the community the means to keep developing LMS. And thanks to a couple of individuals that don't get paid or anything. They are the heroes that, for me, negated this mess Spotify made. However if you aren't that tech savvy you are just kicked of the train. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! Way to go Spotify... Way to go...

 

Btw, Spotify Connect kind of sucks, as does their bloated app. I don't want/need that 'social media sauce' on top of my music experience. Give me a break... They should fire the individuals responsible.

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Regular

 


Explain to me why we can't expect this? When it comes to audio formats you can stil buy and play CD's for example, even on 35 years old equipment. You have just been desensitized by the industry and the powers that be. Why can't they add another year (or two) to their 'support' just for the sake of their clients? How unreasonable is that to expect. In what world do you want to live anyway? We should not expect this at all. If you think 5 years support is reasonable, then 3 years will be the norm next, and so on.

Indeed, I was just reflecting on the fact that one of my Squeezeboxes is hooked up to a 30+ year old amp and speakers. Over the years this setup has frontended various sources; vinyl, tape, radio, CD, media server, Spotify. The last could well be the shortest lived! I've no idea when the manufacturers stopped supporting the amp and speakers. I wonder how many of today's audio device and service designers will see their devices in use in 30 years especially where they're dependent on a transitory API?

 

How soon before the regulators start legislating for planned obsolescence and look at the role of different players (manufacturers and service providers) in the ecosystem? I see one European country has made planned obsolescence illegal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Music Fan

@SkullOne wrote:

Nobody said anything about 'indefinitely'. But 5 years is not very long when talking about an audio device. I have a Denon AV receiver. It doesn't have Spotify on it because it's too old. Newer ones have it though. How long will Spotify support those, and other (sometimes expensive) equipment? 

 


I bet your old Denon receiver does not have any software clients at all, so this does not really apply. For how long do you think that Spotify should have to  support, all their technologies? 10 years, 15 years? Do you also think that this should apply to all other kind of software services?

 


However Spotify itself is 'just' a software service. No hardware involved at the moment. Spotify's focus should be to be able to run on as many devices as possible. Sacrificing a chunk of old clients this way isn't very smart. Especially so when not giving ample notice. And they didn't have to do anything to support these older devices. What they have now works. If they want to introduce a new API older hardware can't play with they should give ample notice and consider the repercussions it involves for many old Spotify users. They clearly didn't care and for that they can (and will) by booed. And they could have opted for a separate service so the new API can coexist next to the old. It's **bleep** software so don't tell me it isn't possible. And cost wise it wouldn't be much for sure. No, there are other motives at work we can only guess at. I bet it involves maximising profits and not satisfied customers. 

Spotify provide an API to which 3rd parties can integrate and support. It is in their interest to make this integration as easy and attractive as possible which means supporting new technology (Web API). It is the 3rd parties interest to keep their devices up to date to support the functionality made available through this API. 

Saying that Spotify does not have to "anything" to keep the old services running is of course not true. The cost of maintaining software is not zero. If so, why are not all software ever released still supported, the cost should be negligable, right? 

Maximizing profits and keeping happy customers go hand in hand. 

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Regular

Frede wrote: 

I bet your old Denon receiver does not have any software clients at all, so this does not really apply. For how long do you think that Spotify should have to  support, all their technologies? 10 years, 15 years? Do you also think that this should apply to all other kind of software services?

 

Spotify provide an API to which 3rd parties can integrate and support. It is in their interest to make this integration as easy and attractive as possible which means supporting new technology (Web API). It is the 3rd parties interest to keep their devices up to date to support the functionality made available through this API. 

Saying that Spotify does not have to "anything" to keep the old services running is of course not true. The cost of maintaining software is not zero. If so, why are not all software ever released still supported, the cost should be negligable, right? 

Maximizing profits and keeping happy customers go hand in hand. 


Ehhh, you are kidding, right? Maximising profits usually do not go hand in hand with keeping customers happy. Especially large(r) companies focus on shareholders nowadays. Not on clients. Clients are just a means to get money and short term profit is tempting. If you think the world works in other ways go look up how the 2007-2008 financial crisis started. And while you are at it, go look up the Panama Papers. Most of the money in the world is kept by a happy few. Fact! Customer satisfaction should be #1 on a company's list, but it's an illusion. However, we digress. 

 

I never said the cost of maintaining software (I actually referred to 'services') is zero. But 'maintaining' software is actually very cheap. Especially for a company like Spotify. Developing a new API isn't. However creating a hybrid setup lies well withing Spotify's capabilities. They are just making their problem ours so it won't be their problem anymore. 

 

My old Denon AV receiver has software in it (called firmware). It supports all kinds of STANDARDS (AC3, DTS etc. but also FM and AM lol). Newer standards like Dolby Neo etc. are not supported. But I didn't expect it to do that. Spotify on the other hand are changing their 'standard' (with zero notice) and this breaks functionality for older devices. They shouldn't do that so casually as they are doing now. 

 

While it is true Spotify offers an API I bet most of their clients don't even know what an API exactly is. Spotify marketing doesn't say anything about for how long they 'support' a given 'Spotify standard'. Maybe they should be clear about that? They don't seem to be clear on why the current change is even needed. They don't elaborate.

 

Spotify's reason for being is we pay a flat fee and it plays on a multitude of devices. The way they make it work technically isn't what is important here. I couldn't care less if they used pigeons to make it work. As long as it does and they at least seem to care.

 

 

I think it is silly all software ever released should still be supported. However the period how long is what matters. How long do you think is fair? Does it depend on what kind of software it is and for what purpose? Does the company size make a difference? Etc. Imho these audio devices (which Spotify was a selling point for and have been sold actively even after discontinuation) should be supported at least 10 years. 5 years is too short and wasteful. Planned or forced obsolescence should be illegal (only in France it now is, but I assume most of Europe will follow shortly). It is and will never be in the consumer's best interest, period. Logitech might be to blame too, but Spotify broke support from their end. Again, like I pointed out several times, with zero notice. You'd think a company like theirs would plan these things out. "No sirree... We are just a bunch of guys suffering from the Peter principle." Yeah... we figured that...

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Regular


 

I think it is silly all software ever released should still be supported. However the period how long is what matters. How long do you think is fair? Does it depend on what kind of software it is and for what purpose? Does the company size make a difference? Etc. Imho these audio devices (which Spotify was a selling point for and have been sold actively even after discontinuation) should be supported at least 10 years. 5 years is too short and wasteful. Planned or forced obsolescence should be illegal (only in France it now is, but I assume most of Europe will follow shortly). It is and will never be in the consumer's best interest, period. Logitech might be to blame too, but Spotify broke support from their end. Again, like I pointed out several times, with zero notice. You'd think a company like theirs would plan these things out. "No sirree... We are just a bunch of guys suffering from the Peter principle." Yeah... we figured that...

 


That sums it up quite nicely. Well actually it may be worse..a real sign of what is in store as we becoming increasing slaves to technology.

 

I'm not so sure it's a bunch of guys?

 

I thought I might get 'someone' from Spotify to answer my original question by contacting them as recommended on twitter "@SpotifyCares"  (really?).

 

Spotify is run by bots!

 

After trying to explain to the bot what a post in their community forum is I eventually got a response from a slightly more advanced AI or possibly human that 'they're sorry for the short notice" and I should rest assured that my feedback was being passed on to the right team! My mind is at ease...

 

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Re: Is Spotify really dropping Squeezebox support?

Casual Listener

I have recieved the same notice. I am still not sure whether it effects only the spotify app on the sqezzebox or also the LMS server solution running on my RasPi. Overall, I join those who are not happy with the short warning time. I have one additional argument for a much longer support time. Spotify is much more than a software, it is a way to sell music. Imagine you would have bought on of the first CD players some 30 years  ago, and five years later somebody would have told you that due to an update requirement you could not longer use CD's on your device. The new way to sell music via streaming requires some continutity in the complete system (hardware, software, provider) otherwise we, the consumers, should return to other ways of buying our music.

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