group session - song keeps starting over

[mswanson25]

Plan

Premium

Country

USA

Device

(iPhone 6s)

Operating System

iOS 13.5.1

My Question or Issue

I have started a group session and have a queue going.  During the middle of songs, the song automatically starts over, multiple times within the same song and with multiple different songs.  

Noticed when a song is added to the queue it will also start the current song over.  

The other person i am in the group session with started the session and is not having this restart problem  

[Billy-J]

Hey @mswanson25, thanks for reaching out to the Community!

Could you try restarting your device? If that doesn't help, try a clean reinstall of the app following these steps.

If you're still having trouble, attach a screen recording of what's happening exactly with sound, and I'll take a closer look 🔍

I also noticed that your iOS version is not up to date. When you update your iPhone by going to Settings > General > Software Update, let me know if that makes a difference.

Let me know how this goes!

[katewebb]

Hello, this is happening to me as well and it is extremely annoying. It has been happening to at least one person EVERY single group session for the last 5 times I have tried to participate or host one.

My recent group sessions have been with people who are listening on separate devices. I am either hosting or joining the group session with my iPhone but I am listening on my Desktop PC. The song restarts or skips around every time a new song is added to the queue.

I have attached a video to demonstrate the issue. If you could have the devs look into this ASAP that would be so appreciated. The group session is such a cool feature and I really enjoy using it when it works, but when listening on separate devices it is so buggy right now. This isn't even the only major bug with the group sessions, but it is the worst one by far as it renders the group session useless.

[MafeG]

Hi @katewebb,

Welcome to the Community and thank you for posting. 

You mentioned you host the session on your phone and play the music on your PC. Does the issue persist when you play the music directly from your phone? 

Also, does it happen when you add the songs, when other people add them, or both? 

Keep us posted!

[katewebb]

Hi @MafeG,

Good question about whether it happens if I listen on my phone. I am not sure. Listening on my iPhone in this particular case isn’t really feasible as I typically have a headset on to chat w/ friends on Steam. 

The song skips no matter who adds it, unless I am the host. My partner has experienced the same issue - he uses the Android app to join session and listens on PC.

Were your devs able to reproduce the issue? 

Thanks for looking into it.

Edited to add: There is no option to join or create a group session on the desktop apps, so there is no other option but to join via phone app then choose the other device to listen on

[Alex]

Hi @katewebb,

Thanks for the reply.

Could you check whether all the songs in the queue that you arrange are available for both users in the group session. Also make sure that you don't add playlists like Daily Mix etc. Let us know if you get the same results.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

[katewebb]

Hi Alex, I can confirm the songs are available to all users. They weren’t added from Daily Mix but they may have been added from custom playlists.

I’m not sure what circumstances would cause songs to not be available to certain users. We are all based in Canada if that’s at all relevant. 

Thanks! 

[CarlosE]

Hey @katewebb,

Thanks for keeping in touch and for that info.

Can you try adding the songs directly from the artists' pages or from Search instead of custom playlists to see if this makes any difference?

Keep us posted.

[katewebb]

Hi Carlos,

Unfortunately I'm quite busy and don't have time to set up and test this (especially as it requires roping in another person to spend time on it too). I will try and remember to do so next time I use the feature, however I'll be honest with you – I haven't used the feature in over a month – I hardly have a reason to use it again in it's current state.

I would consider spending the time testing this for you if you can confirm that your developers were not able to reproduce the issue. If I can provide anymore details to help with that I'm happy to. If the developers aren't even looking at it then I'm not interested in spending my precious time debugging it for you for free. Can you confirm they are actively working on this?

Thanks!

Katrina

[MafeG]

Hi @katewebb,

Thank you for keeping us in the loop. 

So far we haven't been able to replicate this issue and we haven't seen other recent user reports, this is why we want to narrow it down as much as possible.

We understand this requires time, so if you're able to run those tests please let us know the results and we'll be happy to keep helping you with it. The more insights we get the better we can assist you.

As always, we'll be on the lookout. 

[katewebb]

Thanks for confirming. I am on a Macbook today so I will try and test it out there today. If we can't reproduce the issue on the Macbook I will try to find time to test it again on my PC, which is where we first originally experienced the issue.

Cheers,

Katrina

[Jmilligan]

To restate the issue as I am experiencing this:
When in a group session the current song playing will restart ONLY for me if any song is added to the queue any anyone. There may be other times that the song restarts when songs are NOT added to the queue I am not entirely sure; but i DO know adding a song to the queue from anyone will restart the current song for me. I can replicate this with my brother who has an iPhone. I have not tested with another Android device as of yet.

Some Info on my phone:

Model Name: Galaxy Note 10

Model Number: SM-N970U

Android Version 12

Google Play System Update: Jan 1, 2022

Knox Version: 3.8

Service Provider: AT&T (but typically am on WiFi when in group session)

Android Security Patch Level: Feb 1, 2022

Joining the Group Session:

1. The Link is shared through the Messenger app (have not tested via other sharing options yet)
2. If I tap the link it opens Spotify but there is no prompt to join the session
3. If I copy the link into chrome the same thing happens (It opens Spotify but there is no prompt to join session)
4. I go back to the messenger app and click the "Get App" button 
5. It takes me to the Spotify listing in the Play Store. I have 2 options; "Uninstall" and "Open." I choose Open
6. Spotify opens and prompts me with the Group Session. I choose to join.
7. This is when I experience the issue.

Troubleshooting Steps Taken so Far:

1. Closed all apps completely
2. Went to Settings>Apps>Spotify and cleared data
3. Uninstalled Spotify 
4. Cleared Cache in both Messenger and Chrome under Settings>Apps
5. Restarted the device 
6. Reinstalled Spotify 
7. Tried joining the session - the same series of events occurs.

Noteworthy Items:

I do have a Work Profile on this device however Spotify is not on the work profile

This did not happen to me when I hosted the group session but I have only done that once

I have been able to Replicate this multiple times

I am happy to work with a technician if examples or testing needs to be done or to provide any additional needed information.

Thank you!

[Vasil]

Hi @Jmilligan,

Thanks for your detailed post! That's really exhaustive and sounds like you've done quite the troubleshooting yourself already.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we're actually aware that some Android devices experience the joining issue you describe in the first part of your post. This is due to how the ROM interprets the command from the join link. It needs to be forwarded to the Spotify app automatically, but some Android ROMs don't do that. Unfortunately the only workaround so far is to do basically what you do and get to a point where the app opens. You can try opening the link through your phone's web browser (Messenger often tries to handle and display links itself) or just copy the link > Open Spotify > Go to Search > Paste the link in the Search field > Press Enter (even though it might show no results) > The join page should pop-up.

About the song restarting, what seems to be happening is the app being unable to sync up with other session members. The way Group Sessions work, a very stable and relatively fast connection is necessary. Does this happen in Group Sessions where it's only you and your bro? Do you have any proxies or VPNs running on your phones? Does it happen both on WiFi and while using mobile data?

[Jmilligan]

Thank you for the response Vasil! 

Sorry for the delay - Answers are as follows;

Q: "Does this happen in Group Sessions where it's only you and your bro?"
A: Yes

Q: "Do you have any proxies or VPNs running on your phones"
A: No; outside of my work profile on the device which uses Microsoft's Intune MDM software however; this should not interact or impact anything outside of the work profile which is where Spotify would be.

Q: "Does it happen both on WiFi and while using mobile data"

A: It definitely happens on WiFi I am unsure if it happens on mobile data. I will test this and get back to you. Of course it would be impossible for me to definitively say that my network was stable at the time of these group sessions since I wasnt running any monitoring on my network while I was on the session but I will do that the next time we do a group session and share the results. I just ran a continuous ping test from my laptop on this network with the following results;

Ping statistics for 142.251.40.174:
Packets: Sent = 70, Received = 70, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 33ms, Maximum = 172ms, Average = 41ms

Of course this doesnt really mean anything since I dont have that kind of data while I was on a group session but will certainly try to get it to you. I am seeing some spikes of Jitter right now in the ping test i am running (See examples below). Do you think this Type of Jitter occasionally happening on the network I am on could be causing these sync issues? I know in my line of work VoIP would be impacted to some degree with Jitter of more than 30ms but unsure if this spotify group session is similar. I can also power cycle my modem/router and check the numbers afterward.

Example 1
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=117
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=117
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=117

Example 2

Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=134ms TTL=117
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=117
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=120ms TTL=117
Reply from 142.251.40.174: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=117

[Vasil]

Hey @Jmilligan,

thanks for those details and really appreciate your effort to dig into your ping times.

Honestly, we mods also don't have complete info on the exact requirements, just know that the feature is still being optimized and is somewhat prone to hiccups if the network is unstable. This is based on the tech behind it, as a server is basically trying to sync up playback on two completely remote (from its perspective) devices. It's actually never 100% in sync, but restarting the playback is an extreme case of misbehaving for sure.

Has this happened again recently? Could've been a temp thing or it's just intermittent based on the connection stats at one given time 🤔

[katewebb]

I can confirm it's still happening. The song doesn't necessarily restart
completely, but it jumps backwards by 20 seconds or so - this happens each
time a new song is added to the queue.

If it happens several times (for example, multiple songs were added to the
queue), you eventually get so far behind in the song that the song doesn't
actually have time to finish playing - because when the host reaches the
end of the song (the host gets the luxury of listening to the song without
interruptions) the playlist jumps everyone forward to the next song

[Vasil]

Hey @katewebb,

A short pause when modifying the queue is expected. We're talking something like half a second to a second or so. This is because Spotify needs to sync up the sessions and the queue with all members.

As mentioned in the thread, a very stable connection among all participants is a necessity for the best experience. Any larger latency will have an effect on the whole group and might lead to the de-sync that you're describing.

There's not much that can be done about this at this time. Smaller sessions tend to be more stable than larger ones but ultimately it really depends on the overall network stability of the participants. This is usual for all similar situations and is also common seen in online video games where one person's lag is distributed among the whole group, with the session host usually having the smallest impact as everyone else basically tries to sync up with them.

We'll continue to optimize group sessions to improve stability and improve the experience, but slight instances of desyncing will most likely always occur due to the nature of the technology.

[Jmilligan]

Wanted to provide an update to what I have since discovered in case anyone else is having this issue and losing their minds like I was. 

I started keeping a continuous ping open and running throughout the day to monitor my network (open command prompt and type in 'ping -t google.com' without the ''). I did this on Lan and wireless. I was noticing on wireless I was getting g significant spikes of ping upwards of 130ms then it would drop back down to 30ms or so which is more toward the average on my network. I was not getting these spikes on Lan.

If I was in the group session on mobile data I received very little skipping or restarting of songs.

I power cycled my modem and router a few times but this did not resolve the wireless jitter I was experiencing. I have a fairly cheap tp-link router so I purchased a new Asus router I'll let you all know if the behavior changes. 

In terms of VoIP I know each packet contains 30 ms of audio and since it's a live application our phones won't hold onto those packets if there is delay more than 30ms. It will simply drop the packet and move on. It seems group sessions are equally as sensitive to network changes.

[katewebb]

Today I started a group session with my husband, we were both on the same Wi-Fi network sitting side by side. He was using his android phone and I was hosting the session on my iPhone and playing it on a Bluetooth speaker. The playback paused each time he added a song to the queue. Very disruptive! Pretty disappointed in this feature. Seemed so promising the first couple times I used it but has been more trouble than it’s worth since then.  Why can’t the song continue to play as other songs get added to the queue? It’s not like this happens when listening solo… 

[lenny0carrot]

any fixes yet? im still having this problem in 2023