older G4 Macs

[artographer5]

Spotify still works on my G4 laptop but the message every day that "spotify updates will no longer be available soon on this platform" worry me - should I be thinking of selling my lovely laptop sometime soon? I can't find a full length explanation of what is about to happen anywhere - could Richard C etc please expand?

[David · Accepted solution]

Hello,

As Spotify plans to impliment newer and more advanced features, we have sadly had to deprecate some of the older versions of the Mac Operating System. As a result, Spotify would require a version of OSX 10.5 or above, and to be running on an Intel processor.

[artographer5]

Can you give us a rough timescale for your change, and will it mean all powermacs and non-intel macs will not show Spotify at all, or just that it can still run as it is today but with no updates?

[Keithgvp]

I have PowerMacs G4 and 5 running OS 10 X.4 (Tiger) and I think it's pretty shoddy that Spotify can't see their way to accomodate me and the thousands of other users (and music lovers) who either can't afford Intel machines, or don't see the need for them -(outside of having Spotify, I guess).

It's also downright discriminatory, when you think of it

I was enjoying Spotify up til now, and can no longer access it...There just doesn't seem to be any reason why you can't include older macs and systems...Please explain...and if there's no decent explanation (underline decent) then why don't you do something to rectify this injury?

[George · Accepted solution]

Couldn't you pose the same question to Apple about why their most recent versions of OS X are not supported on older Macs?

Ultimately, Spotify are going to have their requirements set to version of an Operating System... and you can't go on supporting old software forever. New features will become reliant on features of modern operating systems, and supporting old OSs becomes a nightmare and adds so much legacy code to any application, which makes the entire application bloated, slower, and much more prone to bugs.

Bearing in mind that the PowerMac 5 was discontinued in 2006. And it's now 2012. You can't seriously be surprised that Spotify isn't continuing to support 6 year old technology. Admittedly they still support Windows XP, which is older than that... but I expect they'll drop that soon~ish.

You have to face it at some point that if you want to use the latest and greatest software, you'll have to keep up with the reasonably newer technology. Computers really aren't designed to last forever, and neither is software for them. Consumers are expected (rightly or wrongly) to go out and replace old equipment with new, and to accept that.

David's given you Spotify's specific reason for this change: "plans to implement newer and more advanced features" - advanced features that old operating systems just aren't going to support.

And as for "downright discriminatory", what about all those iPhone users that can't download half the apps in Apple's Appstore because their devices don't support them. Spotify are no different to any other technology company, they can't support everyone's old devices for ever, else where would the incentive to upgrade be? We'd all still be using old bricks as mobile phones if we could play Angry Birds on them.

Sorry for such a long post... but I hope that it's perhaps enlightened you as to why more and more software isn't going to be supported on your old devices. You can think of it as unfair, but that's just the way it works, I'm afraid.

[Keithgvp · Accepted solution]

I suppose you have a point, as you see it, and there are two sides to every argument.  If you are one of those people who can afford to buy new equipment every other year, then apps like Spotify must be for you.  It seems unfair for those of us who aren't rich or are like the person in this thread who worries about having to replace his G4 laptop to have Spotify. He's become attached to his machine (and OS) because it serves him faithfully and efficiently.

Do you recall the concept of 'planned obsolescence'?  It involves making products that will either go out of date, out of fashion or fall apart after a certain amount of use.  The cynical reasoning behind this marketing ploy is that gullible people will go out and buy the newest version, thus keeping the company profits healthy.  If products were designed to last longer, the company would of course lose out, wouldn't it?  I'm afraid Apple may be guilty of this sort of thing, as just around the corner, the latest iPad may well eclipse the current model - just as that one's sleekness makes the initial offering look downright clunky.  Read similar for your iPhones, iPads, and the Macs. 

As it happens, though people like you may never know or care about it, Apple has built very reliable and long-lasting computers, which can even be updated and repaired by users (though I don't know that installing an Intel processor, if possible, or OS X Lion is worth it to have Spotify).  You think 6 years is ancient history, but visit the Apple Discussions, and you'll see users who are quite happy with 10 or 15 year-old machines and software.  Maybe they won't have Spotify, but there are plenty of other workarounds that they rely on.  Another, more extreme example perhaps, (although I suspect you would find it so dreadfully un-American) is the way 50 or 60 year-old cars in Cuba are kept running - and even looking pretty, thanks to the dedication and ingenuity of their owners. And that goes for a lot of other make-do 3rd world countries, and even in some sensible 1st world ones.  So your arguement about supporting old OS being a nightmare doesn't hold water if you have any respect for the planet.  I'm still blaming Spotify in this instance for not going the extra mile - which probably doesn't involve rocket science to create a "legacy version" ,  to include "older" users. On that note, I should add that being in NYC, I have access to a very superior music collection at my public library - so may well go the route of simply copying CDs to my HD.   As far as "latest and greatest software" if you can afford it, you and your up to date friends can have it....everyone else can go ....themselves...is what I'm reading in your post, friend.

Sorry for such a long post, but I hope that's enlightened you, too,.  

[ishtiaq · Accepted solution]

As a user of a Mac with a G4 processor and 10.4.11 operating system, can I assume that whilst I accept that I will no longer be able to get updates to Spotify, my old version will just carry on working as normal?

If you need to downlaod a version of Spotify that works with old G4 Macs, 10.4.11, ( it works on my Mac anyway), it's here.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3774256/Spotify.dmg

Cheers... Ishy

[artographer5]

That's the question I was asking earlier in this thread, Ishtiaq, and I have exactly the same set-up as you, so will "The Management" please tell us - will our G4s continue to give us Spotify at it's existing level, or will we waken one day to find it will not work at all?

[George]

@Keithgvp: I understand both sides of the argument, I don't actually agree with forcing consumers to keep buying new stuff. I can't afford it either, I don't have the latest MacBook... I'll have stick with my perfectly functional Mac Mini (previous generation before they updated the design and CPU etc etc etc).

But still the issue remains that most of the technology industry (certainly hardware) is built around "planned obsolescence". Apple are a prime culprit of it. Apple's devices are some of the best around in their build quality and ability to last years and years, but they instead release newer versions with newer features, improved aesthetics and a huge marketing campaign to convince you that you NEED the new one. Then all those people who do buy the new devices demand software that uses all the latest features else they feel cheated.

It's a vicious circle. And you might be quite right that Spotify don't need to put that much extra effort into supporting the older platform... except they're a startup where they probably don't have resources to throw at supporting legacy hardware. From their point of view, Non-Intel Macs are probably a incredibly small portion of their user-base... whether it's economically viable to keep supporting it is going to come into play. At the moment it probably is, but it probably won't be in the not too distant future. I've got nothing against old devices, and emphasise completely with people who don't wish to change them because they "just work". And I don't think 6 years is ancient history... it's just viewed as ancient history by Apple and a lot of other companies.

Creating a legacy version is fine idea now... but what happens when they make a backend change and the legacy client gets broken? Are they going to fix it? A better idea would be to have a community based, open-source client, that could be maintained by the community that need it. Libspotify already exists, there's nothing to stop people doing it.

I understand your argument. But I understand the other side of the argument too.

On a side note, wouldn't copying CDs from a public library come under the heading copyright infringement... assuming they weren't non-copyrighted works? Which I presume is precisely your point. Everyone who simply can't afford to keep up to date - which is practically no one - will just carry on making do. Myself included.

As for enlightenment, perhaps that wasn't the best phrase to use. It sounded a bit condescending - apologies if it came across that way.

Regards
George

[Keithgvp]

Nice response, George.

On reflection, I feel sorry for many music lovers who will not be able to access Spotify due to limits on their systems.  As mentioned, I am probably more fortunate to live in the city where library copies are available - than someone in a small upstate community who only has public radio for a very limited selection of classical music - mostly of the 'greatest hits' variety. 

As for violating copyrights - on one level, there's the 'if you can burn it, you can have it'. rationale, and, that since it's public property one could presumably make a copy for one's personal use. (since 'owned' by all).  However, it's perfectly legal to borrow and return.  And, as far as I can tell, one can't download music from Spotify - although I imagine someone's figured that out. 

Spotify - even the basic version - is a wonderful idea - perhaps similar to Google Books' intention to share for free the world's great literature online - or of Wikipedia or the Internet itself.  And maybe  it's just not that easy to write code to include older systems.  Adobe is making it hard for us to update their FlashPlayer on our G4 laptop...another Intel-required incident. Still, you can find a variety of software companies that make the effort to support as many as possible.  So I guess I'm just reacting to Spotify's exclusive attitude. 

[George]

You're quite right about borrowing and returning. And I can see the argument of it being owned by the public... but I wouldn't bet on that holding up if you were ever prosecuted, bound to be some small print somewhere regarding ripping / copying the CDs. Who knows?

Either way, it's a shame that older systems can't be supported - but as you've already noted they're not alone in dropping the old PPC architecture.

Currently, I don't believe anyone's managed to crack the encryption / encoding techniques employed by Spotify to prevent downloading. I think many people have a bit of respect for Spotify for trying to put people off pirating - they realised that people did it because it was just so much easier and cheaper than actually buying music. They've pretty much succeeded in that, since they have a service which is easier than pirating, and has a variety of pricing structures. Originally when it was unlimited but ad-supported it certainly was more popular.

On a side note, when you mention Flash Player being increasingly difficult to get updates for on G4s... that may well be one of the reasons that Spotify is dropping support for G4s. The Spotify client is incredibly reliant on Flash Player for several things (I'm not sure precisely what - but it is). So if Adobe drop their support for Flash, then Spotify probably don't have much choice if they need people to have an up to date version of Flash to work new features. So in fact, this may have been forced on Spotify entirely... it'd certainly be nice to think that this is the reason.

I feel this thread is coming to a close now, but hopefully people will find it useful to read through the remarkable amount of content we seem to have created on the matter 😛

[artographer5]

Oh, I hope not, George, because I, and tens of thousands of non-intel mac owners still need to know from "the management" if our perfectly servicable computers will suddenly not open Spotify, or will it continue in it's present state but with no updates - and when might this be.

A fully descriptive answer please from Spotify!

[George]

Surely if you've been prompted that the client isn't being updated then it will continue to work until a change is made in the Spotify backend... and then there will be no update, and it will not work.

No updates, means no support, which means as soon as it goes wrong, it isn't going to be fixed. I would have thought that they won't specifically decide one day to stop non-intel macs from being able to use it.

That's my interpretation anyway.

[artographer5]

Thanks for your interpretation, George, but some of us are music lovers with little interest in computers, who need Spotify to tell us in plain English what our timescale and scenario is so that we can decide whether we need to sell our Macs, and when.

[jamesventham]

Please, please, please Spotify. Don't just turn my music off. You have been warning me for a while that my platform will become unsupported (Mac PowerPC, OS X 10.5). It works fine, I don't need any new features. The music sounds great. 

Please clarify what 'unsupported' means. Will you just switch the music off or will us older Mac users still be able to listen without all the new fancy gadgets and features up your sleeve?

Thanks. It works fine. I'll keep paying for what I have. Don't shut the stream down. J

[smcelyea]

That attitude is for the "Birds"! New technology is great,but who can afford thousands of $$$ to upgrade when YOU decide? There is not ONE THING wrong with keeping a "Classic" version available and still continue upgrade paths. APPLE is ALSO WRONG FOR KILLING non-intel support. There are hundreds of thousands orphans they now have created. Aint progress GREAT?!? I love it, but can't always AFFORD it like some...

[smcelyea]

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!!!

[user-removed]

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but I'm pretty sure over the past few days the Spotify Mac client has been throwing up more and more errors ("Can't play track", "Your account is being used elsewhere", etc) on my G4 Mac - Windows 7 client is fine. In addition, the warning message about future upgrades is becoming more 'in your face' as well.

May be better to amend the message to say the current client version will no longer function correctly on older Macs - this will more accurately describe the situation and allow older Mac users to make the appropriate decisions.

[David]

While I certainly not nearly qualified to provide a blow by blow explanation on the reasons why, I may be able to shed somewhat of a light on timescale. Our first encounter with having to deprecate PowerPC was around August 2011. Most users using these devices would have got an email at this time. We have since updated our FAQ relating to this question.

[artographer5]

If you don't mind me saying so David, that was a useless reply! I have asked constantly throughout this thread for the answer to a simple question and you have avoided that completely. I will ask it again, but why can't you give us a straight answer???

(Q) On non-intel macs, will Spotify continue to be available as it is today, or will it cease to work completely one day when Spotify update their system? And when will that happen?

Please give us an answer such as-

Yes, it will cease to function completely

or

It will still be working, but will not feature any new features

Surely that's not too much to ask? We realy need to know a timescale.

If our macs are going to be redundant we need to either sell them and replace, or find an alternative music source which would be tragic as Spotify is by far the best.