[All Platforms][Music] HiFi Quality - Lossless Streaming 16bit 44.1khz

[timiambeing]

I've just started a trial of Qobuz - they offer the standard 320kbps as well as lossless FLAC streaming (and high res downloads if you purchase them) the sound quality is noticeably better and on classical it's just wonderful to get all that resolution through your hi-fi or headphones! The catalogue has a way to go to get to Spotify's level, but they are getting there. The iPad app isn't' too bad (the desktop app is in need of an upgrade but I hear they are putting all their efforts into mobile apps right now).

So - lossless streaming - if Qobuz can do it then so can Spotify, they must have the same source - and obviously if you are asking £20 a month then those record labels and distributors take enough notice to make the high res tracks available for streaming. What this all means is soon, very soon, we will get lossless streaming and closely followed by high res downloads - but if Spotify aren't careful it will be Apple who get there first with an audiophile premium offering, and when they do it will be a much harder market place to make money in!

** please don't lump this suggestion with the main one on lossless downloads, that's a different idea entirely guys!

[timiambeing]

I've just started a trial of Qobuz - they offer the standard 320kbps as well as lossless FLAC streaming (and high res downloads if you purchase them) the sound quality is noticeably better and on classical it's just wonderful to get all that resolution through your hi-fi or headphones! The catalogue has a way to go to get to Spotify's level, but they are getting there. The iPad app isn't' too bad (the desktop app is in need of an upgrade but I hear they are putting all their efforts into mobile apps right now).

[timiambeing]

So - lossless streaming - if Qobuz can do it then so can Spotify, they must have the same source - and obviously if you are asking £20 a month then those record labels and distributors take enough notice to make the high res tracks available for streaming. What this all means is soon, very soon, we will get lossless streaming and closely followed by high res downloads - but if Spotify aren't careful it will be Apple who get there first with an audiophile premium offering, and when they do it will be a much harder market place to make money in!

[rlowe]

PedroMJ   Definitely agree, and I would add some people (H7p3ri0n for example) are not able to hear the difference. Others of us absolutely can hear the difference.  The song and recording of the song certainly matter as well.  There is a clear difference, simply try out Amazon or Deezer, then Spotify or Apple, depending on the song there can be a large noticeable difference particularly in depth as well as lower and upper ranges.  I don't blame others who just don't experience this difference.

Back to the matter at hand, Spotify needs to step up soon.

[H7p3ri0n]

OGG 320kbps and AAC 256kbps are both transparent codecs, so they are 100% identical to FLAC for listening (just facts).

Any claim to hear differences is resulting from placebo effect, bad encoding, lower bitrates, bad DAC/FDA, or bad faith (at least it's what my 20 years experience as professional musician, hifi enthusiast, and engineer tell me ... and my ear is usually considered a great one).

About Hires formats, it's another story : please read and take the red pill 🙂 (Google Translator is your friend) : 

https://web.archive.org/web/20200202124704/https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

[cl2solutions]

Put OGG 320kbos and AAC 256kbps through a spectrum analyzer and compare to FLAC. You will see there is a hard cutoff with OGG missing information at 17khz and above. Looks like you’re reading the wrong “facts”.

[H7p3ri0n]

Nope : only the high frequencies which are totally inaudible are discarded by the psychoacoustic filter. So it's a very good reason to remove them. 

You confuse removal of data and removal of sound. at these bitrates nothing hearable is discarded : only useless frequencies. It's the basic of psychoacoustic.

Even if OGG320 encoding had any effect on sound quality : this effect would be so thin that , for example, just moving one of the speakers 10 inch left or right would have ~ 10x more effect, changing  speakers or headphones would have ~ 100x more effect. Do you think that all those who change their speakers are loosing sound quality just because the change has an enormous impact on sound details, frequencies, ... ?

[rastaman2000]

@H7p3ri0n

So you can read. CONGRATULATIONS! 😉 Maybe it's time to start LISTENING! 🙉

However, if you still prefer "VISUAL MUSIC", here you go:

[rlowe]

Please read the other links posted above here, and feel free to do more research beyond the limited amount you are noting. These all include scientific results showing there is a difference, clearly refuting your theory.   Until then, please stop repeating the same disproven hypothesis.  More importantly, that is not the point of this post and follow up comments, which are by far (thousands and thousands) in support of the initial post.  Have a nice day.

[rastaman2000]

[cl2solutions]

LOL “NOPE?!?!” Hahahahaha. Take a hearing test! If you’re saying 17khz is an inaudible frequency then your ears must be mightily fatigued. Take your rebuttal to a lo-fi group in some other community. Your fight is awfully tiny in this thread and will not survive based on diminutive hypotheses. Also if I were to bet why Spotify isn’t upgrading, it’s because they don’t think they can make enough money to offset transcribing costs of all the songs in their library, not because it’s not noticeable. And don’t even think about referencing the CEO’s quote about how people don’t recognize the difference and that the Spotify community is not interested enough in high quality audio.

[rastaman2000]

NOISE & SPURIAE

PCM

FLAC

MP3 128 kb/s

AAC 128 kb/s

MP3 320 kb/s

AAC 320 kb/s

PCM

MP3 320 kb/s

AAC 320 kb/s

PCM

MP3 128 kb/s

source: https://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd/index.html

[H7p3ri0n]

cl2solutions : you don't understand the very basic of sound encoding. Removing some frequencies at 17KHz doesn't mean that the hearable spectrum at that frequency is affected. The frequencies that are discarded are "not" inaudible because your ear is not able to hear 17KHz ! They are discarded because they are completely hidden by other simultaneous sounds several decibel higher. 

Again : the transparency of modern codecs at high bitrate is totally demonstrated, and it's not something that can seriously be discussed anymore (think about the sphericity of earth). I just want to inform. Don't take it wrong 🙂 What CAN be discussed is the efficiency of psychoacoustic models that make modern codecs transparent at 120kbs (OPUS and AAC HE) , other codecs transparent  at 190kbps (OGG, AAC), and older codecs transparent at 250kbps (MP3)

 rastaman2000 : what you're showing in the second answer are cliping : nothing to do with encoding, it's just bad mastering. About MP3 : I don't care cause I don't think that MP3 has enough compression ratio so I don't use it. Anyway, MP3 is a good codec at 320kbps, even when the encoder has a low pass filter at 20KHz like in the spectrums you posted. Your ear can't hear above 16KHz, maybe 17KHz, but don't expect anything else than noise at these frequencies 🙂