Ban Info Wars - Alex Jones.

[FrotzMe]

This is outrageous. Info Wars finally gets banned from YouTube and Facebook and now you start hosting him!?!?  I have been a member of Spotify since the start and became a paying member almost as soon as it was possible. I’m giving Spotify 1 month to realize their mistake and drop this complete pos or I’m going to iTunes. 

[cj11363]

but it's not "do or don't" when it comes to free speech.  The classic example being that your right to free speech does not entitle you to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater. 

Publishing incendiary and demonstrably false allegations about someone, along their home address, dob, etc... is not an entitlement.  Any company that provides a platform for such lies, libel and defamation could easily find themselves embroiled in the snowboall of litigation that has already started.

  Having some restraints on libelous speech is considered a good thing by most people.

[cj11363]

I don't even follow him, but will of course defend his right to speak publicly.

I too support his right to speak publicly, as long as he is not impinging on other people's rights, but Spotify is not a public platform.  

[Wolfin]

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@cj11363 wrote:

I don't even follow him, but will of course defend his right to speak publicly.

I too support his right to speak publicly, as long as he is not impinging on other people's rights, but Spotify is not a public platform.  

Ah the old "they're a private company they can do what they want" excuse.

At what point does a private company hosting a public service make that a public platform? Your logic applies to pretty much the entire internet.

[jeresoph]

No need to worry at the spot. You’ve got plenty of alt right options ifoyou wan tot enjoy his lovely brand of sunny optimism.

[cj11363]

At what point does a private company hosting a public service make that a public platform? Your logic applies to pretty much the entire internet.

Spotify is not a public service.  Not by any stretch of an even overly active imagination.  i suppose that "The Internet" can be thought of as a loosely regulated public utility and yes, most of the servers ( and clients ) traveling the information highway are private vehicles.

Public platforms are, by and large, government regulated.  Are you suggesting that the Internet needs more government regulation?

[samson365]

This conversation seems to have jumped into the legal bounds, out of it, and over to allegations that have not been ruled in court, then into the morality of his content, then over to private policy, and public.

I thought that I made it clear in my initial post that I understand Spotify has private policy. I am not arguing their right to have that policy, I am arguing the policy that was created by them and supported and enforced using money from my subscription. I don't like their policy and as someone who contributes to this platform I would like it changed. Spotify banned Infowars based on their "Hate Content" policy so yes it is over their hate speech policy. That was in their public statement.

"Hate Content

Hate content is content that expressly and principally promotes, advocates, or incites hatred or violence against a group or individual based on characteristics, including, race, religion, gender identity, **bleep**, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, veteran status, or disability."

How many artists would be wiped off of this platform based on that policy?

[samson365]

lol they bleep the word s3x

[samson365]

"

but it's not "do or don't" when it comes to free speech.  The classic example being that your right to free speech does not entitle you to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater. 

Publishing incendiary and demonstrably false allegations about someone, along their home address, dob, etc... is not an entitlement.  Any company that provides a platform for such lies, libel and defamation could easily find themselves embroiled in the snowboall of litigation that has already started.

  Having some restraints on libelous speech is considered a good thing by most people."

You seem to be confusing a call to action.

[FrotzMe]

Replying to samson365 regarding:

Firstly. No, you said none of my money was going to him which is demonstrably false. All our money is pooled and then split into streams, so i am contributing money to every time he is streamed. This is not a matter of opinion.

Secondly, what harm does it do?

His type of argumentation totally destroys having a factual, civil and mutually beneficial conversation. His hate speech is not about learning about the "other" side. It is about maliciously and deliberatly skewing the public discourse to gaslight every issue. I am NOT and have NEVER been against free speech. But i will not pay (no matter what the ammount) for his type of hate speech. He also has a large following and this acutally makes him dangerous to freedom of speech and democracy as a whole. I (and a lot of others) voiced my/our concerns and stated to spotify this is unaceptable. spotify needed to choose between hosting this moron and my/our money. No rights have been violated at any step and the process has been transparent. This is what freedom of speech and democracy looks like. Everyone can and should speak up without being a male procreative stick.

Thirdly, I should just enjoy the music and look the other way.
No way! Let me educate you on what happened when german people did that in the 1930s, when there was another dude who used hate speech. It all went to BLEEEEEEEEP. Every one has a responsiblity to make sure that hate mongering idiots do not get away with the same insanity again.

samson365 wrote: "The article pretty much said what I did. It just adds that the rest of the funds go into the popular artists. If Alex Jones is that popular, who are you to deny people who also pay their way to hear it? What harm is it doing to you? This all has to do with you pushing you're beliefs onto others, I am against that. Even if it means arguing for a nut job. Stop being thought police and just enjoy you're music, because if we go down this road it won't be long before one of you're favorite podcasts or artists is banned too.

"The article pretty much said what I did. It just adds that the rest of the funds go into the popular artists. If Alex Jones is that popular, who are you to deny people who also pay their way to hear it? What harm is it doing to you? This all has to do with you pushing you're beliefs onto others, I am against that. Even if it means arguing for a nut job. Stop being thought police and just enjoy you're music, because if we go down this road it won't be long before one of you're favorite podcasts or artists is banned too."

[cj11363]

You seem to be confusing a call to action.

You are correct, I am confused ( though I do continue to enjoy our civil discourse ).  Perhaps the hint of a split infinitve is throwing me off.  Am I confusing a "call to action" with something ( what ? ), or am I confusing a "call" with "action" ?  Either way, I'm still confused ( and I'll admit, that's never a particularly distant journey for me :).

Nonetheless, I think that this topic has it all: legal, moral, ethical, social, public and private policies.   Not sure that you'll be able to limit discourse on this issue to a single thread, nor do I think that you should try to.

Whilst we obviously disagree on at least one point ( I think that banning Infowars is a good thing ), perhaps you and I might agree that Spotify did it for the wrong reason ( "hate speech"  ).

[Vrankie]

spotify must RETURN Alex Jones or I will cancel my subsription

[cj11363]

spotify MUST NOT RETURN Alex Jones or I will cancel my subsription

[Bill41]

You people are absolute idiots and racists yourselves!  I admire a man who risks his life to save this courntry from the leftist **bleep** like you who are so deceived by the media that hate him because he has exposed the truth about the evil hatred which comes from Hillary, Nancy and Chuck Shummer and the rest of the extreme left!

Pull your pathetic heads out of your rear ends and wake up to the truth!

Look in your own mirrors and hearts and there you will find hated and it will be you that burn in **bleep** because of your evil ways!

Nothing but hypocrits, but yet you stand for the left!

[cj11363]

Wow. Just *WOW*… not exactly what I would call a well reasoned and logical response…

[jeresoph]

yu iz nott spellinng good.

yu mayke mee larf tho.

hav a gud day

[ikonane]

Have they blocked him? 

[TheAmerican]

If you don't like it don't listen. It's called freedom and it's yours to use. Please be a free and open platform for all ideas, even dumb ones.

[FrotzMe]

@TheAmerican Exactly, it's called freedom and I used it (my freedom to choose which companies I spend money on) to tell Spotify that it won't get any of my money if they host a show that perpetrates outright lies with the intention of sowing chaos in the democratic machinery (democracy is what acutally guarantees our freedom). 

This is what freedom is, live with it.

[jeresoph]

Couldn’t agree more. I love the way that some Alex Jones loving troglodytes use the word ‘freedom,’ as if it means that you can do whatever you like. You want to murder your neighbor, go for it, you’re just exercising your ‘freedom.’ You want to rob a bank, that’s your right. Freedom is a foolish catch all phrase that does not mean society can function whatever you feel like doing. That’s anarchy. 

The rules are complicated and nuanced.. But there is always a balancing act between letting people act the way that they want to against the consequences of so doing. Most normal

people know where the difference lies. If you listen to Alex Jones my hunch is that you have no frigging idea. 

[jufd5677897]

Just like a Clear Tent Span offers protection, platforms must balance freedom of expression with community values. If dissatisfied, seeking alternatives, like finding the right shelter, is always an option.